Ubisoft Employee Explains Why Star Wars Outlaws Is A Game-Key Card

THIS! Is actually very interesting.. Brace yourselves for angry comments. Thanks for the article.

Whatever. Better for me. I ended buying dozens of games I've never even started for switch 1 because I wanted a "big collection of physical games". Now that a lot of these are fake physical games for switch 2 I'm just not buying them and playing what I actually get. Their loss, not mine I'm saving money in the end

If that’s the case that might be it for me.

I might go completely digital for switch 2, except 1st party games (and the occasional full on card releases or (retro) collections).

Doesnt feel like its worth to wait for physical editions.

It makes sense as its a current get title only and both PS5 and XBOX Series X have m.2 NVMe storage that is way faster than what even the Switch 2 cartridge and the new SD Express cards can offer.

This is also nothing new. I still have both classic SSD ( up to roughly 500 MB/s ) and superfast m.2 NVMe storage in my gaming PC.
While some older games run fine from my classic SSD, most modern games I really need to install and run from my NVMe storage or the performance just sucks.

They may have a legitimate need to have the full game on disk, but if I buy a game key card now I’ll just be signaling to publishers that I’m okay with them, which I’m not.

Urgh, do i now need to consider any physical games i can get, that performance will actually be better as a download. I know on Switch 1 there was negligible difference in loading times - but that was it. This is suggesting actual performance differences. Even then, why can't the game data be on the card and installed to the Switch - that's something most will be happy with - the idea is that we always have a means to access the game and not depend on servers - so installing a game from a card can achieve that.

Waiting for the "I would have accepted 20fps if that means it's actually physical" comment

@Friendly Its why I bought CP2077 digital on my Switch 2, so I could install it and run it from the Switch 2´s internal m.2 NVMe storage.

I also have the 256 GB SD express in my Switch 2, but I try to only keep my older digital Switch 1 titles there.

So what they are saying is the open world for Star Wars is more taxing than the open world for 2077?

@OneArmedGiant I would also think, if Cyberpunk can do it, they all could do it.

Game Key Card....no

@OneArmedGiant not necessarily, the way snowdrop uses the available tech might be different than the way cp2077 uses the tech. Cpu vs gpu for instance.

I'll believe this only if Ubisoft releases other games with less streaming heavy demands on proper physical carts down the line.

@Banksie no, this is suggesting that Ubisofts self built Snowdrop engine isn’t a suitable match for the carts. The same quote even suggests that if a different game were built from the ground up it wouldn’t have been so much of an issue.

I think what we are seeing here is the compatibility challenges of ports for certain games built on other engines that were designed to run on different consoles.

@OneArmedGiant I guess we have forgotten that CP 2077 released 5 years ago on both current and previous gen and we all know how well it ran on previous gen. lol.

People seem to have very short memories. As those on PS4 and XBOX One got refunds for their CP2077 purchase.
Then CDPR spend the last 5 years fixing and improving the game on current gen only.

It´s an incredible game right now, don´t get me wrong. It´s one of my most favorite games right now. But lets not just conveniently forget all the problems this game had back at launch, just so we can all bash Ubisoft right now.

@Jeronan Played Cyberpunk 130 hours from the cart and did not notice any particular chugging that might be related to assets streaming.

So I appreciate Mr Bantin coming out and providing some insight on the performance considerations but - as he said himself - proper design can make open world games run just fine from the cart.

I'm afraid the performance angle will be used as yet another cop out from publishers willing to push the costs on the consumer.

It's too bad that Nintendo does not offer an "install the full game from the cart" option. I read arguments about the user experience being worse than just downloading the whole thing, but I'm not sure about that - it's just a one time thing and it cannot be that bad - and it does not address the game preservation issue.

Maybe Nintendo will offer that option down the line or offer smaller cart options which may encourage publishers to stop using GKCs for everything but I'm not holding my breath.

For now, I'll keep voting with my wallet and ignore GKC releases entirely.

@Sebos But in what way are they pushing the cost on customers ? Game key cards and digital downloads are not more expansive, it's quite the opposite in fact

I'm so happy I went all digital over 10 years ago. Don't have to deal with all this drama.

The main problem for me deciding which version of a game to get is when a game releases physically on switch 1, but on a game key card on switch 2 (with improved performance), such as dragon quest 1+2.

Not so much these large current gen games which are very graphically intensive / demanding. I might be happy to get these digitally, preferably in a sale though.

@Jeronan
So what you’re saying is that Star Wars released in great condition? Not what I’ve heard. My comment was posed as a legitimate question for an answer, not to be attacked for having a short memory. Not upset for your response just trying to make sense of the situation.

This exactly sounds like a reasonable explanation, I'm really surprised because this is coming from Ubisoft of all companies.

@Banksie yeah - there's a speed difference when loading from memory (edit: I mean internal storage) vs loading from cards and the SD express card

@iLikeUrAttitude except the read speed of a Switch 2 cartridge is 400 MB/s, which is 4 times faster than the Steam Deck running via Micro SD (where it is Steam Deck verified). This is just an illogical statement, coming from a company that didn't optimise the original release to begin with (when it was on PC and PS5) claiming that somehow the Switch is to blame.

@OneArmedGiant Star Wars Outlaws might had some bugs and issues at launch, like pretty much every major game that released recently.... but nowhere near the problems that CP2077 had back in 2020.
I bought Star Wars Outlaws on my PS5 at launch and had no issues whatsoever.

CP2077 was literally unplayable on PS4 and XBOX One.
I had the newer XBOX One X Scorpio Edition at that time and there CP2077 ran somewhat decent and was actually playable.

There was a reason why people were offered refunds for CP2077. It was THAT bad. So yeah, a lot of people have very short memories.

This is a decent reason for this game as it was designed for SSD devices.

But the same excuse can't be used for every game. A lot of game key card games don't need higher speeds at all. It's all just a cost saving exercise in their case

This is not the type of game I would play on a Switch anyway. Waiting for a deep sale on Steam.

I like this candid response. But why aren't digital games less expensive than physical ones??!

Honestly while I don't like these responses at face value, the fact that he openly admitted how the situation sucks suggests to me that it's genuine and may go SOME way to explaining the game-key card phenomenon among devs. DOESN'T explain why Square and SEGA went so all-in on game key cards for last-gen games though. Well, we know why, £££, but yeah.

@Jeronan
It must just be way over my head and I don’t understand. I mainly play switch because I don’t have time for that much gaming. Thanks for your understanding and response. 👍🏻

@DarkTron Yeah. If their engine can't make do with the cartridge read speed of Switch 2 it's simply poorly designed, and no wonder it was also a mess on other platforms.

@DarkTron Are you serious?

Steam Deck has builtin NVMe storage! Steam deck verified doesn´t mean its verified to run from a standard microSD lol.

Do you actually have a Steam deck and have you tried to install and run this game ( or any other major modern game ) from a micro SD card? Have you any idea how incredibly slow a micro SD card is?
So I call total bull on this! As I can´t even run most of the new games I play from my older standard SSD ( 500 MB/s ) on my PC these days and need to install and run it from my NVMe disks.

And lets not pretent that all new big titles run peachy on Steam Deck. They don´t!
People have been crying to Valve for the past 2 years or so to release a more powerful Steam Deck 2!
It´s why I didn´t buy a Steam deck OLED last year, when Steam deck was finally available for purchase here in Europe at a whopping 1000 euro lol. Horribly overpriced for outdated hardware.

Yeah I'm sure Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 was bursting at the seams

As hard of a pill to swallow this might be, I find their explanation to be the first reasonable one.
There are ways for Nintendo to fix this down the line (force copying to internal memory for games that require higher storage speed), but I doubt they'll do it. Also, many publishers are just greedy, I find Ubi's to be an isolated case.

As for Steam Deck and Outlaws specifically, it works like c*ap, terrible experience, and read performance might be a big contributor.

Obviously this is complete nonsense. Why would Nintendo use a format that couldnt handle basic games?

Unfortunately, that does make sense. A compromise though, if you could fit the data on the cartridge, is still have a fully physical release that just installs/copies to the system memory.

@Zuljaras C'mon dude I'm sorry to single you out but that's real ignorant. Just because you don't want it, and the collectors you are speaking on behalf of also apparently don't want it, doesn't mean nobody does and it shouldn't exist.

There are plenty of people who are on a tight budget, and being able to resell, trade, borrow or give away the game is a huge deal for them. And the key cards afford that where a full digital download doesn't. Why would you deny those people that option?

It doesn't take away from your digital download, and the fully physical release was never going to happen for technical reasons so it's not taken away from that. It's only providing another option for those that might want it. That's a good thing.

@Oldstalk pushing the cost to the customer in the form of storage. Publishers cheaping out on the cart means the customer has to buy expensive MicroSD Express cards to install the games.

Some people argue that the SD card pays for itself in the form of cheaper GKC releases. Sure, but the preservation issue remains.

Yeah i'm still not buying that game...

@Sebos The Switch 2 has 256GB internal storage. Most of the Switch 2 titles so far seem to be around 12-25GB in size average.

So you can easily install 10+ titles on internal storage alone.

In comparison with PS5/XBOX Series X, both came with 1TB of storage.
There the average game is over 100GB in size, some even closing in at 200GB.
So I was forced to go out and buy "verified" NVMe storage for my PS5 and paid 200 euro for a 1TB NVMe card at the time.
So even with a total of 2 TB storage in my PS5, I can still install more games on my Switch 2 internal storage today, than I can on my PS5.

The 256GB MicroSD Express card I picked up for 60 euro.

Put it on a cart with a mandatory install, then.

Ooooh, need to find me some speed tests to verify.

Seems strange that CP2077 manages it albeit that i would accept that different engines require different specs.

If true, it would back up my view that Nintendo should have moved physical over to needing installs to run and allowed for upgrading the SSD.

@Jeronan Don't know where you live in Europe but SD Oled has never been 1000 euros.

@Beetoe Scandinavia. Its because it needs to be "grey" imported. As its still only available in very select countries in Europe.

@Zuljaras

"I don't like something therefore it shouldn't exist for anyone. Options are bad".

It seems that Nintendo has left itself on the side shelf again by not making a sytem that easily codes with others. This will hamper the output that the switch gets from third parties. Very similar to some of the previous consoles really.
I don't think Nintendo care too much, if you want your game on their system then you play there game. Lets face it it's there own games that sell their consoles, not third parties.

@dew12333

Since Xbox One and PS4, games have had to be loaded onto the hard drives because the read speed of the disc drive was too slow.

Looks like Nintendo is actually just catching up to it.

@dew12333 Nintendo could easily solve this, by allowing us to install games to internal storage from Cartridge.

@Zuljaras

Well looks like they are going this route anyway so tough luck I guess.

And if all the third parties chose to put the full games on carts (which they never actually are as what games aren't patched these days?) then you can be sure that cost will be added to the price of the physical release. And then it will be more moaning about price.

Fact remains there is a cost reality with key cards. In my local AUD currency, Outlaws is $90 RRP vs Cyberpunk at $120 on a full card. The new Daemon X Machina game is $130. For Nintendo house games, DK Bonanza is $110 and Mario Kart World is $120. Street Fighter 6, on key card, is $80. So, the basic price difference is $30.

It must be noted that all these games can be found cheaper, typically $10 off. I got Outlaws for $75 as a special launch day price at Target. Similar with SF6 at $65 and DK at $90.

Remember, a cheaper physical copy means a cheaper eshop copy because prices are aligned. Of course, you don't get the discount from the eshop, which makes physical copies an attractive purchase regardless of the card used.

Edit:
Not to sound like I'm defending key cards, let's note another key benefit is the longer development time that they provide. Outlaws looked horrible a few weeks ago, and if the game needed to be ready a few months earlier for production and shipping, who knows what we get. Almost certainly a day 1 patch would be required. With a key card, the developer could fix and refine the game within a few days of release.

Perhaps I am defending key cards? 🤣🤭

Edit2:
Quoting Jeroman: "Nintendo could easily fix this, by offering large capacity slow and cheap cartridges with the option to install to internal storage on the console."

I don't see this as valid at all. The old cards are too slow for an option not to copy to internal storage. It would be a requirement. Therefore, may as well get it off the server! Even though this idea you theoretically own the data, in practice you don't because it still could (or likely) require an initial patch to play. Remember, a key benefit of buying data cards is to preserve your internal storage! People need to let go of this right to physical ownership like we almost exclusively already have done with music, film and even PC games.

Their loss. And this is Ubisoft so I take anything they say with a grain of salt.

@Jeronan

That still means third parties having to pay for a cart to fit the full game on which compared to discs is prohibitively expensive. So they still won't do it.

Game Key Cards was Nintendo's way round this.

Otherwise you get download codes in a box with no re-sellability or digital only release.

Cyberpunk is very much going to be exception to the rule.

@Zuljaras The reason is simple and the fault lies with Nintendo!

XBOX and Playstation use the Bluray standard and an empty Bluray costs less than 2 USD.

Its Nintendo´s fault to keep coming out with proprietary cartridges that are notoriously expensive. Especially at larger storage sizes most modern games need to fit on it.

Nintendo could easily fix this, by offering large capacity slow and cheap cartridges with the option to install to internal storage on the console.

Both Microsoft and Sony had already figured this out since the PS4 and XBox One 15 years ago, by going the Bluray standard route (so people could use the consoles to also play movie Blurays and DVDs).
Even the XBOX360 offered an option to install to HDD from DVD back in the day already. I had an external SSD for my XBOX360 back then.

Remember how Capcom supposedly convinced Nintendo to up the Switch RAM?

This seems like a similar situation. Presumably Nintendo consulted certain devs (including Ubisoft, given the established working partnership) on the Switch 2 hardware specification and issues like this would have been flagged. Nintendo chose the path it chose, and that's that.

Be interesting to see whether any future Switch 2 hardware iterations address this storage speed issue.

Having done a quick Google the difference between load times on internal storage and the game card can be anything between 20-50% difference. The SD express seems a little slower than the internal but again much faster than the cartridge.

I wonder if we will see a larger internal ssd for a switch revision given this information.

@Jeronan Sure, on average. And then you have silly ports such as Split Fiction that is 70GB in size, but I agree it's an outlier.

But as I said in a couple other replies, the issue for me is really that Game Key cards are the next nail in the game preservation coffin. The Switch was probably the last platform where physical media contained the entire game (with few exceptions), and I did not wish it to change.

The "Stop Killing Games" initiative that is pushing legislators to take a closer look might change that trajectory though.

@SBandy1 We also don´t know what kind of deal there was between CDPR and Nintendo, since CP2077 was clearly a Third Party showcase title for the Switch 2 launch.
So Nintendo might have given CDPR a very good deal on Switch 2 carts to make it a physical release to boost Switch 2 console launch sales.

@Sebos Again, read my 2nd last reply. Nintendo is solely responsible for creating this problem.
They haven´t learned a single thing from the Switch 1, where large capacity cartridges costed upwards of over 16 USD per cart !
Compare that to 2 USD for a Bluray..... can you blame game publishers for releasing digital only on the Switch?

And now with the Switch 2, Nintendo themselves have increased their game prices with over 10-20 USD/EURO.
Here in Scandinavia I had to pay 110 EURO for Mario Kart World and I deeply regret wasting that much money on a mediocre game.
That is a very hefty increase compared to Switch 1 first party Nintendo titles I paid average 65-70 EURO for before.

I don't buy this reason .
The whole game is only 20gb big... I do not believe that the Cartridge is too slow .

Im fine with the key card thing, mainly because im lucky enough to have a stupidly fast internet connection. But it does suck for most players absolutely.

The good thing is that these games can be sold on. I usually buy single player games (Like Resi Evil) for XB or PS on disc so once i've happily finished it I'll chuck it on eBay so I can make a good enough amount to buy the next game. The same goes for Switch games.

If they come onto the store later in a massive sale I might double dip, something to go back to.

I don't get how that fixes anything. Disk drives of other systems are way slower than switch carts.

@SBandy1 An option that create a strong incentive for publishers to kill the existing, generally preferable option deserves some scrutiny, don't you agree?

@gcunit Plus to get the RE Engine running if i remember correctly.
Big help that turned out to be :/

This sounds very similar to the same problem Nintendo experienced during the N64 era with 3rd parties. But I'm not sure how true it is, this is Ubisoft we're talking about, a company known for making up BS excuses and poor practices in the game industry.

@Mortenb really? So the NVMe storage in my PC, PS5 and XBOX Series X is way slower than a Switch 2 cartridge?

Last I checked my math skills, 1500-5000MB/s read speeds is quite a bit faster than the 400MB/s read speed of a Switch 2 cartridge.
But maybe I need to start smoking what you are smoking to see it differently?

@jojobar It... is ? Is has been tested again and again. Just search "switch 2 cartridge loading speed" and you will see some comparison with games installed on system memory and games on cartridge. It's way faster on system memory or microsd express.

And that's not an official press release from Ubisoft. It's just someone who worked on the port. What's the point for him to lie about it ? Makes no sense.

Either way I'm already no longer a Star Wars fan when they gone Disney so I won't be picking this or any future new Star Wars games up anyways.

@Axecon This is not an official Ubisoft statement. It's just someone that worked on the game. What's the point for him to lie about it exactly ?

@Sebos

It would have been considered at length between Nintendo and third parties.

Majority of third parties likely said "no chance we are paying so much for proprietary Switch 2 carts so come up with a solution" and this is that solution.

@Jeronan I think we are in agreement here. Slower, cheaper large capacity carts would probably have been a better choice than what we have today, especially with Switch 2 where technical limitations become more apparent.

It would not solve the issue of games ballooning up in size and having to buy expensive storage solutions, but at least the customer would actually own the game on an actual piece of hardware.

It’s actually crazy to me that we now live in a world where the literal professional can tell us straight up why something doesn’t function as expected… but armchair commenters will still continue claim to know a lot more about how the custom built engine or dev systems they’ve never worked on should be expected to operate. Mental.

people saying put it on cart then install it from said cart would then complain why do i need my cart in the switch lol. i question all the people on yt comments extra saying not buying switch due this reason lets face it werent going buy it anyway. switch 2 wil be last console with physical media

@Oldstalk This has been confirmed and one just need to look at the known specs. Its no secret whatsoever.

Switch 2 cartridge has read speeds of up to 400MB/s.
SD Express cards have read speeds of up to 900MB/s.
Switch 2 internal UFS 3.1 nMVE has read speeds of up to 2100MB/s.

You don´t need to be a math genius to see how slow the Switch 2 cartridges really are compared to the SD Express cards and especially Switch 2´s own internal storage.

@Zuljaras I don’t think you’re right about that. Resellability is a big factor for many collectors, including myself. As a collector, I sometimes sell games I’m no longer interested in to make space, and funds, to get new games. I know many collectors do the same.

This is pure corporate *****!

@Zuljaras I agree it's a luxury, but to say if you can't afford it go without is elitist. It's a luxury we should afford to as many people as possible where we can because it's one that brings joy and enrichment to people's lives.

Honestly I'll be blunt, it's stupid to get upset over key cards when you're ok with downloading games digitally. Because a key card is the exact same thing, a digital download. It's just a digital download you can then resell or trade or whatever.

Why would you be so against that option even existing? Your digital download still exists with all it's limitations. You can still enjoy the game just the same! You don't have to buy the key card version. So why does it offend you so much that others have that option? Why should everyone be forced to comply to your narrow view of what is and isn't acceptable? What possible good purpose is there for that? It's not going to help the game sales and the devs who's job security may rely on it. It's not going to help the publishers and Nintendo's relationship with them. It has zero effect on you except maybe allowing you to feel like you're above others with your luxury product that they can't afford now. And that feels like a really crappy point of view to take, to want to deny others something for the sake of it. Is that what you want?

"I just don't agree with keycards" is moot if you accept fully digital releases. And "I don't want to encourage it" is also moot because there is a technical reason here and not having a key card doesn't mean a guaranteed physical release.

So why do you want to gatekeep this option from people based on their income? Why do you feel the devs shouldn't be allowed to offer it in as many formats as they see fit? I just cannot see a good reason.

Any business making something has to figure out the quality, distribution method and price of their product so they can make a financial return on their investment.

If the consumer doesn’t buy the product, none of this matters. If the key cards don’t sell Nintendo will have to come up with another way to sell games that their fan base is happy with.

That's the first I've heard of this $23 a peice price tag. Before Im pretty sure our logic was $13. Is this confirmation of "Just how bad things really are?"

@SBandy1 the drama is only there if you make it so. Im a physical collector of switch but dgiital buyer on PS5; and dont complain about game keys cards, digital or physical in any way. I understand the pros and cons of all of them.

I could make all of the above an issue in either "not all on card / disc", "im only renting a license", "someone could steal my collection" (insert own arguments as applicable!), but at the end of the day its down to the devs / publishers how they sell their product.

Now I know i 64gb cart is $23 dollars though, I can understand the costs of switch 2 games a little clearer, so again, a negation of a problem given that means say MKW was actually £60 minus cart costs; and when you add cost of living / production / wages and whatever else, as long as there's content, £75 a game isnt actually that bad, compared to a £70 PS5 game, in my eyes.

***edit, I mean by comparison a PS5 disk is around $1.50 (£1.15) compared to a switch cart***

@OneArmedGiant 2077 got delisted by PS. Pretending Outlaws was in a remotely similar state is disingenuous at best.

@Zuljaras Game key carts are topping the charts, because in many countries, there are stores that have membership programs, like here in Norway for example where I get 10% discount at Elkjop on new physical game releases.
So often (but not always) I can get a physical copy (or with Switch 2 game key card) for a better price than buying digital.
Especially PS5 games I get at a way better price than in Sony´s own digital Playstation Store.

Nintendo themselves are also not being a great example, as their own Console bundles, like the latest Mario Kart World Switch 2 bundle. It just came with a game key code on a piece of paper. So we didn´t even get a cartridge with game key card and still had to pay a whopping 110 euro more for this bundle!

And this is Nintendo themselves FFS! And then we attack third party publishers, while Nintendo themselves get a pass?

So if the game is installed on the sd express does it runs pourly ?
internal speed is 2100m/s, sd express is 800m/s, digital foundry needs to test this.
can anyone that bought the game try it ?

I'm not buying the game on a game key, I already have the game on luna, so I don't need another digital version but may be I'll buy it when the eshop version will be heavily discounted. I don't buy digital games full price except for indies.

This is also why XBOX and PS5 games always require a full installation of the game on internal storage. Sure they could also have just put the game as an installation on the cartridge, but the Switch 2 really doesn't offer that option.

The real difference is here that on PS5/XBOX the game can be installed offline, where on Switch 2 you need an internet connection. (or the game just runs off of the GameCard)

Cyberpunk did it so Ubisoft are just lazy. I hate their corporate political BS spin which is just lame excuses. Up your game Ubisoft.

@DiamondJim Cyberpunk doesn't use Ubisoft's engine. So not comparible.

@DiamondJim In the same sentence I can also say CDPR did so, while Nintendo themselves didn't with Mario Kart World, where I got a game code on a piece of paper. So I didn't even get a real cartridge and sleeve!

So why should Nintendo get a pass for even worse practices, cheaping out with their console bundles and not even offering a real Game Key card, but just giving you cheap piece of paper with a code on it?

I would have maybe even be somewhat okay with it, if the Bundle was actually offered at a discount, but no! The Switch 2 bundle was 110 euro more expensive than the base bundle. So I paid full retail price for Mario Kart World and didn't even get it on a cartridge!

Feel free to skip it, especially since it's Ubisoft. Seems like they're not up to the task like CDPR for example. Very simple

@AussieMcBucket digital is the same price as physical because otherwise brick and mortar stores would go nuts and refuse to stock anything. And perhaps local authorities that look at monopoly situations would start raising eyebrows too.

@vitaminj Digital versions used to be about 10 USD/Euro cheaper, since it doesn´t have the cost of physical media and distribution.

This was also a way for both MS and Sony to sell their digital only consoles!

But now, Sony has jacked up prices on their Playstation Store and often are more expensive than physical copies in stores!
So Sony is now actually in hot water and being sued for overcharging people with PS5 digital consoles, that can only buy digital and now have to often pay more for new games, than people with normal PS5 consoles.

It's because of the Ubisoft CEO decision with his belief how wonderful to NOT owning physical games. 🙄
Don't EVER buy game key card, guys!

@Zuljaras Dude, you were the one saying you'd rather they didn't do it at all and only offered digital download. That's all I'm pointing out.

Not surprised, as the Switch 2 carts are still WAY slower than a SSD.
Lots of data that needs fast access in modern open world games.

We've established that all servers will go offline eventually.
So when purchasing digital-only, we're basically renting a product.
Accordingly, publishers will never get more than a 10 bucks renting fee per game from me.

@Slideaway1983

A very sensible approach.

Reading the typical "If this game can do it, so should that game as well", not understanding that, different game engines work in different ways, when it comes to disk access and CPU/GPU usage.

@Exerion76 Exactly! And it will be even worse for existing and upcoming games build on UE5.

Can we have I/O benchmarks of the Switch 2 internal storage, of a few commonly available SD cards express, and of an average Switch 2 card? I'd like to have some detailed info before agreeing or disagreeing with this guy.

@jojobar
It's not about the size, it's about the speed that is needed to access that data.

@Anti-Matter remember free will my friend. Have your opinion and make your choice but you can't tell others what to buy and not to buy.

@SirLink I already posted the official specs up in the comments earlier.

Switch 2 cart can reach Read speeds of up to 400MB/s (still slower than classic SSD drives).
SD Express can reach Read speeds of up to 900MB/s.
Switch 2 internal UFS 3.1 NVMe Storage can reach Read speeds of up to 2100MB/s.

By comparison. My PS5 internal and additional m.2 NVMe storage drive has a read speed of up to 5500MB/s.
Same for my XBOX Series X.

@Jeronan
Yeah, this is the reason, why I only buy Nintendo consoles for the exclusives, that are tailor-made for the console.
Everything else, I play on PC, or the stronger consoles.

@Jeronan sorry, I hadn't read your comment, and thanks for sharing.

@Jeronan I meant to refer to the CD/blueray/whatever it's called drives.

@Mortenb Yeah but that is no issue, as no game can run from Bluray on PS4/PS5 and XBOX One/Series X.
They get installed to local storage first and then you run the game from local console storage, which is significantly faster.
The Bluray disc is then only needed for authentication that (still) you own the game.

@Jeronan So, then my point is, why not include the game on the cartridge?

@Mortenb Because the large storage Switch cartridges are 10x more expensive than a Bluray disc. For one.

Then, second, Nintendo doesn't allow us to install a game from Cartridge to internal storage. Which would offer significantly better I/O performance.

@electrolite77
Well, my wallet already spoke to me.
It said NO to me about game key card.

@Jeronan one problem: discs are 999% easier to damage than cartridges

@StewdaMegaManNerd That doesn´t matter.

A game publisher looks at their bottom line and the profit they can make.
On the one hand they have a bluray disc for 2 bucks and in other hand they have a 20+ dollar Switch cartridge.

Are you prepared to take that extra cost and pay 20 USD/Euro more for physical Switch game compared to the PS5/XBOX version?
I can already tell you right now, that most people won´t and why publishers don´t take that risk and rather release it either Digital only or as Game key card for the Switch/Switch 2 to keep price parity across all platforms.

@kmtrain83 not too sure sorry, I guess the answer would be no as far as users go, but if devs really wanted the option for their physical cartridge to be "install to system memory" I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for Nintendo to add. Like it was mentioned above, it would be like the other consoles where games are installed from Bluray discs, just from cartridge.

I'd personally prefer that over game key card any day. We'd still get a cart containing actual game data, but installed to the system where I/O performance is best.

@Jeronan The whole point of the article was that it was not about the cost of the cartridge, supposedly.

If the latter is true, that Nintendo prevents installing files, then the article should rather have focused on this. The fact that Nintendo has policies that prevent a game from installing anything onto local storage, which is forcing some to resort to key cards, even though they'd like to provide physical.

As it stands, the article gives the impression that there is some good hardware reason to not provide physical, that it has something to do with the read speed of the physical media, etc. Which isn`t relevant technically, as this particular developer would like to provide it on cart, it's relevant only because of Nintendo's weird policy.

@electrolite77 Almost. SSD has been around for a long while now.
The PS4 and XBOX One had SSD drives. While XBOX Series X and PS5 have m.2 NVMe drives.

So its actually SSD vs m.2 NVMe storage. Where consumer grade SSD found in XBOX One/PS4 was limited to up to 500MB/s, while the modern NVMe storage found in XBOX Series X and PS5 has up to 5500MB/s read/write speeds.

@kmtrain83 thats a word soup - i haz brainz but lot big word! 🤣

But yeah I sort of know what you mean.

After I went mad in ps3 and ps4 buying all sorts of games, I did buy a ps5 in the November/ December of 2020 with the drive, but as I noticed less 1st party games coming out (that I was interested in) i just stopped buying 1st party. Now I did buy Ratchet, gt7, astro bot etc on disc, but everything else is digital for me from now on.

As im usually a one and done gamer anyway, having a "license" to play a digital game doesnt bother me too much; but woth nintendo, I often have my friends and family now and again saying they want to play x y or z, so im glad to buy that physical as it will be used at some point.

I guess its just the universal language of nintendo; my cousin has a switch and isnt great at games (and she's 30) and loves to play Mario party / co op mario with me; my partner (mid 40s) loves to play bowling on switch sports / worldwide games; so to me they are worth holding onto.

On the other hand if I turn around to them and say why dont you have a go on ragnarok, its usually "it looks good, but too complex for me"... my cousin loved watching me play ff16 a couple of years back, but wouldn't touch it because of relative chaos to her non gamer brain - and therefore not worth being physical in general because ill never play it again (and resale im not bothered about, as i usually only buy games i want to try, and if I dont like them, thats my fault for buying it, and at least ive supported them).

So again, there's pros and cons

@Olliemar28 Thanks for this article. It puts a new perspective on the key cards and makes sense , reading the comments.

@SwitchplayerJohn Its not a PS4 Ära Game. You can‘t classify it that way. The DLC never was released for the older Consoles. Also Star Wars doesn‘t look as good as CP2077. So it‘s an Engine thing.

@kmtrain83 I have been buying digital for a good long while now, but thanks to Sony´s utter greed, I can often buy new game releases for up to 20-30 EURO cheaper physical in the store than on the digital PS Store.
And now it will be the same with Switch 2 releases that are now 100-110 Euro, I can save 10-11 Euro buying a physical/game key card in the store, due to fixed 10% member discount on new game releases.
As before, on Switch1, digital versions were often 10 euro cheaper, but now on Switch 2 store, the prices are the same.

This new info makes it sound like Nintendo themselves will move to Key Cards for 1st party releases once the "Switch 1 game turned into a Switch 2 game" territory has passed and we're into games that started development on Switch 2 territory. For example the next new 3D Zelda game.

Well I guess we can all sit back and wait for their future physical releases. GAHAHAAA, who are they trying to kid??

@kmtrain83 this is true, and half of that trust problem is that the PR / Publishers / Execs are so often misunderstood by the average audience as the “game developer”.

The dev is usually 99% on the same side as the player in contrast to their publisher, they know their tools, they know how to get their title operational. They don’t have any real reason to BS the audience.

But it unfortunately makes it frustrating listening / reading comments that backseat dev without any real understanding of what is practically achievable.

The current age of opinion = / > fact is such a blight on humanity.

So bottom line is they are saying the sd card is quicker than the game cartridge.

Overview
Nintendo Switch 2 uses microSDXC 7.1 cards, which offer read speeds of around 800-900 MB/s, significantly faster than the original Switch's microSDHC 60-95 MB/s speeds.
However, the cartridge itself is the slowest medium, with games loading from the faster internal storage. This allows the cartridge to function as a key to start the game, while the bulk of the data is accessed from the system's SSD

https://youtu.be/tuxBOAOQV6s?si=_s8kbGHWSvbXmBme

@Lord The SD Express card has read speeds up to 800-900MB/s on the Switch 2.

The Switch 2 game cartridge is a different medium and lot slower and is limited to up to 400MB/s.

Can't they just copy data from the cartridge initially and put it on the internal storage? Install the game, if you will.

Nintendo should implement a "Install from cartridge" option like every single PS5 and XBOX Series X game with discs.

Blah blah blah it's just lame excuses, there's far better games that seem to run great on physical.

I would call this a skill issue.

I repeat myself: Nintendo should offer NS1 cartridges for NS2-only games.

Pro:

• Much cheaper, especially if a small capacity is sufficient

Cons:

• Potentially easily hackable
• Very slow, so installation required (like with PS4/5 games from disc)
• Probably still more expensive than game-key cards

@Zuljaras

Saving publishers and developers money isn't necessarily a bad thing, these businesses still need to make money, still need to pay wages etc to be able to develop/release games.

Its not all evil, though I'm sure there is a fair share...as there is in all areas of life.

Then have a partial installation to onboard storage for the required audio files. .

Problem solved, whole game is still on the card.

This excuse is a joke, if it’s even true.

If CDPR can do it with Cyberpunk, so can everyone else

@electrolite77 I agree the switch does seem to have learned that lesson. But when it comes to the AAA titles they have not made it easy enough to port them from one to another, we seem to be in the same place as a few systems ago!
@Jeronan I think Nintendo prefers a closed system that doesn't allow that/
@SBandy1
Nintendo have always been catching up with the other in certain regards. But I have often felt that Nintendo does not do enough to make their systems run alongside the others. It seems to me that if you make a game for sony and then want to put it on Xbox it doesn't take much. Whereas to transfer that to a Nintendo system it never seems to be that easy.

This hopefully won't affect me massively. I tend to buy multiplatform games for my Xbox and PS exclusives for my PS5.

If however, there are Switch 2 exclusives (first or third party) releasing on Game Key Cards, then I'll skip the game entirely.

@kmtrain83
Who's to say digital won't outlast physical? My own experience, for starters.
All my physical media, CDs and cartridges, still works just fine after 35 years.

Whereas some of my digital purchases from Sony, Nintendo, Apple and Amazon were either purged, discontinued, had their servers shut down, ran into licensing issues or had some other shenanigans come up.

Who's to say digital storefronts won't need to be supported for longer?
The fact that capitalism is about profit only.
If you think customers have the upper hand vs corporations, you can think again.
Money talks, so corporations lobby our lawmakers and create the most favorable conditions.

But feel free to FAFO for yourself, cause it's none of my business to tell you how to spend your hard-earned dosh.

@JayJ
Nintendo are also cheaping out themselves by selling games as Game key cards to maximize their own profits.

So again, why should Nintendo get a pass? Like I said earlier.... the Switch 2 Mario Kart World bundle is the worst cop-out by Nintendo, as we didn´t even get a Game key cart, but just a piece of paper with a code on it. No cartridge, no sleeve! Just a piece of paper!

And then we are in here blasting Third parties for releasing game key carts. While Nintendo´s own behavior is even worse!

@Zuljaras I'm just saying its not all black n white. Everyone has their own reasons for using / buying the key cards and there's a lot of tarring every instance of it as evil or bad.

Free market economy, time will prove what works and what doesn't and it might not be the same for everyone. What some individuals / companies do or comes out on top won't necessarily please everyone.

Of course Ubisoft will always choose the anti consumer route. Online requirements for single player games, delisting games after a few years, game key cards, etc... I really wish these companies would cut the bulls**t. Game key cards benefit the company, period. They don't want people to actually own their games anymore. People making excuses for Nintendo and game key cards are also being ridiculous and naive. When the cost of those SD cards come down, companies will continue using game key cards. They'll just make some lame excuses about why it's "beneficial" for customers. I hate that Nintendo even introduced this pathetic media.

@Sonicka I call it the “boomer mentality”… People jumping to conclusions and demanding things to be done a certain way just because so and so did it at one point in time. Demanding to it done that way as well without knowing the circumstances that allow it to be possible then calling everyone lazy if they don’t make changes or don’t do it that way from the start.

LOL. They should play Cyberpunk2077

@breach187
Agreed. This seems like the exact situation where Game-Key cards are needed. A game needs to be fully installed for performance needs, but the company still wants something physically on the shelves for consumers. And Star Wars is definitely a franchise that parents/family would grab for a kid for Christmas. However, for me, most of these situations will push me to wait for a sale and just pick it up digitally.

@Lynel_Richie exactly that.

GB or Wii or even WiiU era came to an end , understand this . Digital is the future , ( Steamdeck , almost all retro consoles etc . ) are 100 % digital !!! Face it , times are a` changin` !!! One mistake from the publishers is to try sell digital games as physical .

@krogp Just cause the dlc never released on PS4 doesn’t make it not a PS4 era game…. The underlying technology and engine was designed and root in that specific generation. That why CD Red is moving to UE5, they don’t want to spend the effort to actually upgrade the engine to actual take specifically advantage of PS5, Series, and Modern PCs.

It seem that Massive decided to actually update their engine to continue use of it into further generations instead tapping out like some many other devs and opting for UE5.

@vitaminj I think you're right about that. But what about your point on monopolies? Could you explain that further?

@AllBLK So many millions of people are ridiculous and niave, I think you hould have a look in the mirror!

I had a feeling this could be an issue for game cards & demanding open world games. It's a bit disappointing.

@WoomyNNYes It has nothing to do with the game cards though. Other platforms have physical even though their physical medium is way slower.

It is apparently only because of Nintendo's policy to not allow installation of files from a card. Weird, as obviously it's allowed to install files from downloaded content. I wonder, ehy do they make this distinction?

@AussieMcBucket I was thinking that competition authorities would dislike a company managing products always undercutting "competitors" selling them - but perhaps I'm being utopian! Esp. given that those little cards exist where you can buy some digital goods in physical stores.

Isn't the point of using SD eXpress for speeds equal to an SSD? I mean, they are solid state drives! There's no moving parts!

@Jeronan
As someone who is Ninty only, i don't follow games on other systems... I wouldn't know any of this.

@Oldstalk
They use Key Cards which offer no space on them. Which means the customer HAS to go and buy additional storage.
1Tb SDeXpress cards are $200
So, yes, they are forcing us to pay for their cost!

lets hear from other 3rd party devs excuses why their games for switch 2 are on game key cards wen the switch 1 versions are complete physical which is completely dumb.

@Mortenb My gut says Nintendo's not going to allow a game to transfer from the game card to system memory for the life of the switch 2. I'd love to be wrong.😆

But yeah, if we could install the game from the game card to system memory, most of these switch 2 game key cards could be full games on cheaper switch 1 game cards.

Really? They push the bs that GKCs are good for the customers etc. And AFTER they see the hate overflowing towards GKCs, suddenly comes a guy and provides “technical” mumbo-jumbo reasoning. Totally belivable. Oh wait, it’s not.

Just going to say that I don't believe him and leave it at that.

Then just release digital?
All key cards do is eliminate the convenience of digital AND kill the collectibility of physical. It's a middle ground that removes the good of both other sides.
Digital/code in box still gives you the game permanently.

@MARl0 What's your educated, fact-based reason for thinking he's lying?

You know what? It's actually funny to see some people listening to a dev who works on an audio for engine that's over a decade old. Who mentions quality target with a game that lacks quality in this day and age. I wonder what the next excuse will be from Ubisoft.

@Jeronan
All games that are bundled with hardware either ship as a download code with the console or is pre-installed into the console itself, it has been like this since the Switch 1 (and probably before that too).

Pretty sure this is also the case for games bundled with PlayStations and Xboxes.

@westman98 It’s a Nintendo greed thing.

Both PS4 and PS5 I bought as bundle and they came with full physical copy of the game.

Same with my XB360 back in the day.

So no, this typical Nintendo greed. The Switch 2 packaging was big enough to include a normal physical copy of Mario Kart World. Especially since I paid 110 Euro extra for the bundle. So the same price if I had bought Mario Kart World separately!

@Jeronan
Maybe this is a regional discrepancy, but every PS5 and Series X bundle that I have seen comes with a digital copy of a game.

Going back to Nintendo, the majority of Switch 2s sold is the Mario Kart bundle, which comes with Mario Kart World pre-installed onto the Switch 2 itself.

@Jeronan I’ll just buy digital then. Sue me

I still don't like the game key cards at all, but assuming what we are told is true, this is a really solid reason for using one and really strikes the best balance between the collectors' desire for a physical cartridge and the technical reality of data bandwidth capabilities.

Halftruth.
It could have still had all necessary files on a cartridge that installs it without the need for the eshop or online altogether.
Sure you wouldn't save on storage space but at least preservation remains intact.

@Grumblevolcano ...no? Nintendo's already said they won't be making use of them, they actively optimize games for their own hardware, and Kirby Air Riders, which seems to be the first first-party Switch 2 game that only ever targeted it specifically (it would track with its development timeline starting in April 2022, and Sakurai was previously the first developer outside Nintendo to learn about the 3DS and was tasked with making a launch window title for it specifically, which turned into Kid Icarus: Uprising), is complete on cart.

@dew12333 Take your own advice. Keep falling for the bs from these companies. They love people like you. You probably think Nintendo and these other companies are your friends.😐

OK, I can understand that. But, 95% of the other key card games. I call BS on.

@AllBLK Uh what? Lol

If this is true, we might have a problem in the future for games that heavily push bandwidth.

My only grip with this issue is storage space, if the vast majority of releases were going to bee digital or disguised digital (AKA game key cart) Nintendo should have launch the console with at least 2tb model variant. Hopefully they'll fix this with the inevitable revision down the line but who am I trying to fool, it's Nintendo with whom we are dealing with here.

@AussieMcBucket because by doing so, they would kill the retail industry.

@Sebos what issue with game preservation are you talking about? I keep reading that as an excuse to "get with the times." (not saying you are one of those people) you can find literally any game you'd want on the internet (ISO, Rom or otherwise)

@OneArmedGiant Thats not what theyre saying at all. What youre forgetting is that Cyberpunk 1st saw a last gen release so its setup in terms of streaming of assets wouldve been built to accommodate last gen mechanical drives.

@Sebos The preservation argument is nonsense. Digital games can be dumped and preserved. Do you think that all the digital only 3DS games are lost now that the eshop shutdown? Everything is available to download somewhere. I like physical games too, but over time they will start to decay with disc rot and all that.

Sony and Microsoft solved this problem a long time ago by allowing you to install physical games to the digital storage of the console.

Too bad Nintendo wasn't smart enough to think of that. That would also allow them to use a cheaper storage medium (like Switch 1 cartridges) for games that require an install. Cause the whole reason Switch 2 cartridge cost so much is the need to support much faster read speeds than Switch 1 cartridges.

Obviously, I'd still prefer running the games directly from the cartridge where possible, but installing games from a slower cartridge would have been a much better compromise than Game-Key Cards.

@vitaminj "digital is the same price as physical because otherwise brick and mortar stores would go nuts and refuse to stock anything. And perhaps local authorities that look at monopoly situations would start raising eyebrows too."

I've seen this claim spouted a lot to defend high digital game prices, but I couldn't help but notice that physical versions of No Sleep for Kaname Date have an MSRP of $50, but digital versions have an MSRP of $40.

So I don't think this myth is actually true. Big companies just want you to think this so they can get away with much higher profit margins from digital sales.

I genuinely, hand on heart, DO NOT CARE.
I cannot get my head around the grievance when everybody is quite happy using Steam.
Make it make freaking sense.

@krogp Cyberpunk wasn't made for SSD's but Outlaws very much was

@jojobar That's not how it works. Snowdrop is an engine designed around SSD's or speeds near them, the Switch 2 carts are slow for Snowdrop hence the need for internal storage instead.

I guess this is the most justificable reason to ship a game not physically.
However, while this can apply to demanding games that require strong SSDs to fast load assets (imagine a Rift Apart experience for example), smaller games that don't demand those are another thing. Games that are also on last-gen for instance... I can't think about why FFVII remake should not come on a Physical Game Card.

@vitaminj I see, you're saying that Nintendo would be looked at as though they were trying to control the whole thing for themselves.

@EriXz I don't see how. With how many people are complaining about having physical copies, it sure seems like they are willing to pay more to "actually own" their games. Others would likely make their decision based on convenience or price. To my mind, digital storefronts are in many ways more convenient. And if they are priced the same as a physical copy, then I don't know why you would buy from a retailer. Besides, it's unfair pricing. If anything, we should be boycotting that instead of Game-Key Cards specifically.

Cyberpunk exists. That game single handedly makes it clear everyone is doing it out of greed. And let's be real, this is Ubisoft, so that's most certainly the case.

@AussieMcBucket yo don't see why but thats the reality of it. 🤷

So apparently Star Wars Outlaws is more demanding on the Switch 2 than Cyberpunk 2077, which, if you ever watch PC part testing, is still demanding enough that it frequently gets shown in PC benchmarking. Also, isn't CP2077 also just more visually dense than Outlaws in general?

@kmtrain83 I don't really care to get into a semantics debate, so I'll just say the way Sony and Microsoft "handled" this problem is better than the way Nintendo "handled" it.

@Ogbert
I was gonna say the same to the guy. I get how GKC anger a lot of people but I view it differently. It’s just another option for devs and pubs. The ubi guy just said 64gb cart is $23 that’s insane. Surely the game releases at higher than $59 if on cart. Those costs will come down and hopefully pubs get more size options soon.

I will always prefer the entire game on cart but that ship was already sailing on SW1 with so many big games essentially using 8gb carts as key cards. One upside I see is GKC will allow typical street retail quick and random price cuts like we see with disc published games. I bet by black friday were getting 3rd party games like this on GCK for $20-$30.

@Friendly - Why go digital when at least with the keycard it can be traded in or sold again? You can’t do that with digital. I get the argument of why people don’t like the keycards because it doesn’t contain the full game, but at least it lets you sell it back.

@mattitudemf because i have to carry it around whenever I want to play the game. And with multiple games that becomes annoying.

If i have to go digital, I’d like to go all the way with regards to ease of use.

I'm happy with the flexibility that key cards offer in certain instances. The majority of consumers just want to buy the game, play it and then sell it on. They aren't preservationists.

Sony and Microsoft have been doing the licence on a media thing for years. Nintendo just made the mistake of branding it into a buzzword people can get angry over.

A key card was the right call for this game as the quality and performance of the game should take priority over the media format.

@kmtrain83 That unborn grandchildren comment had me laughing.

@OneArmedGiant Star Wars is a much more recent game and Digital Foundry stated voted it the best looking game of 2024 and the most technically advanced as well. So yeah, it more advanced but both ports are great showcases for what's achievable on Switch 2. Imagine a game built from the ground up.

The carts seriously cost the publishers $23 each? How in the hell did Nintendo repeat the Nintendo 64 cart disaster 30 years later AGAIN!?

"Snowdrop relies heavily on disk streaming for its open world environments..."

This is the bit which doesn't make sense to me.

I am playing this offline, both docked AND handheld, and the game experience is consistent.

I know there's no multiplayer component, so what do they mean by "Snowdrop relies heavily on disk streaming for its open world environments..."?

*****.

Cyberpunk had no problem and neither did DK. This is just a lie to try and reframe their greed.

@electrolite77 Physical or Digital are the two valid options.
No collector wants key cards, no one that wants the convenience of digital wants key cards. Like, no one that cares about games wants them, they're anti-collector and anti-gamer, removing them doesn't "take away an option", it prevents a festering.

@RickStar I would on a Switch 2

@LEGEND_MARIOID It's still a downgrade compared to a good PC. Of course it's subjective, but I prefer to play this kind of games on Steam. Open world photorealistic games always require compromises to run well on handheld devices.

Does this mean the internal storage is faster than the microsd express card as well? Or are game cartridges slower than the micro SD express? If I move the game to the microsd, will it result in performance issues?
I would've imagined that they all achieve similar performance given the express requirement.

@UndockedActionFemme They're talking about data streaming (moving data in and out) to the disk/ssd, it's not related to streaming files over the internet.

@RandomRanger SW2's internal storage is roughly five times faster than cartridges and a little over two times faster than sd express cards.

@ro-kurorai oh my. My assumptions were incredibly ill-founded it seems. Thanks for the info!

@RandomRanger no worries, the known numbers are roughly like this: 400 mb/s reading speed on cartridges, 900 mb/s on sd express cards and around 2200 mb/s on internal storage.

So, if you save games to internal storage you may cut down loading times significantly. The nvme2 SSDs in the Series X and PS5 offer reading speeds of 6500 mb/s, so SW2's internal storage is mighty impressive in comparison as it's fitted in a small handheld device.

@RickStar I really can't justify the costs of all those consoles though like many others I'm sure. I have to choose one that the whole household can enjoy even if they are a mixture of teenage and young adult gamers. The cost appropriate and cost effective one for me and us is actually the Switch 2 together with enough visual oomph to be enjoyable. Gameplay is where it is most at, of course.

@Banksie thanks for writing that. Feels obvious now but I didn't think like that before I read your post

@Friendly seems we feel the same way on digital regarding the convenience thing. Must admit I never thought about the performance aspect previously, though of course you get that with game key cards too. (Btw, looking at your post also made me happy because of the best Fire Emblem character as your profile pic )

@Ulysses "Both Switch 2 and Switch 1 game cartridges are far too tiny, and for no real reason other than Nintendo wanting teeny tiny cartridges for the cuteness." I'm sure the reasons are a bit deeper than that

@Ejadaddy
Thanks for actually responding to my question and not just as an excuse to attack.
That makes sense to me now. Like I said, I mostly play Switch and I think 2077 is a great game. Haven’t played Star Wars yet and was told by everyone that I talk to that it was trash. Maybe they have fix it by now like what has happened with Cyberpunk.

I think it's just PR speak trying to control the narrative. I'll be the first to admit that I am not a developer, coder, computer whiz, etc., but don't PS4, PS5, XB1, and XBS games all download to and then run off of system memory? What does "disc streaming" have to do with that?

@OneArmedGiant Hey friend, I played Star Wars on release day and it's amazing. It's a completely different game to what was shown in previous videos and what people played at that recent gaming convention.

Sorry but this is a BS excuse. PS5 and Xbox had the game on disc but required internet to install. Did that make the game better? Did that SSD make the game any less of a busted mess? No, I didn't think so.

This is an Ubisoft employee that works for a company that quite literally said that "Gamers need to get comfortable not owning games." They are trying to condition you to give up ownership of your games.

And I don't want to hear any of these excuses when CDPR literally put the entirety of Cyberpunk on cart with it's DLC. And I would point out that Cyberpunk uses asset streaming to load its assets dynamically. Just as Witcher 3 did on Switch 1 via the Red Engine.
@UndockedActionFemme See above.

If Ubisoft wanted to (they don't) they could have put the game on a proper cart. But that would have required some effort. Something Ubisoft seems allergic too with it's countless formulaic open world slop these days.

I see a lot of people saying "You can sell key cards." Yeah? Good luck with that. Who are you going to sell them too? Physical gamers don't want them. Digital gamers don't want them either. Gamestop won't give you much for them when they don't give you much for physical titles. And this is Ubisoft. The company that shut down the Crew (Hence Stop Killing games). They also killed servers for RUSE on Steam (a game my friends and I played multiplayer in). You may be able to sell them, but only for as long as Ubisoft feels like allowing you to do so until they pull the plug.

@AllBLK Why would you call people names who disagree with you? Do you think that will change there optinion to aline with yours. Why do feel it neccesary to change other peoples opinion?

I will continue to spend far too much money with Nintendo than I really should. In fact would it make you happy to know I flew all the way to Japan so I could spend even more of my money with them!!!!!!!

@Jeronan sorry to hear that, I had no idea