One very positive thing about the switch 2, I feel, is that while the hardware is familiar the games feel unique (first party) to a new generation. The Switch 1 shared its identity with the Wii U throughout its lifecycle, something that for me personally wasn’t a highlight of the system. But that’s not the case between the Switch 2 and Switch so far.
Yeah, I take issue with this. There were plenty of Switch games that were wholly original and didn't have a Wii U equivalent, and honestly the Wii U felt like it was lacking identity in a sense and that's a big reason why I skipped it. The biggest issue I see with the Wii U lineup is a severe lack of single player exploration-focused games. If you were the kind of person who grew up with games like the sandbox Marios (64 and Sunshine), OoT or TP, Banjo-Kazooie, or Metroid Prime, what was there for you on the Wii U? There was Xenoblade Chronicles X, which is a niche ARPG, and then BotW, which was delayed so long that it ended up being cross-gen. That's part of the reason why the Switch felt like a breath of fresh air from the very beginning. We had not seen games like BotW or Mario Odyssey or Luigi's Mansion 3 in YEARS, and aside from the aforementioned cross gen release of BotW, the Wii U never had games like those. I'd been waiting the entirety of the Wii U generation for games like that and they mostly never came, whereas the Switch came out of the gate with multiple of them and kept releasing them over the course of its life. Even beyond that though, there's several IPs missing on the Wii U that got entries on the Switch. Even some typical mainstays. There was no main series Animal Crossing or Kirby or Fire Emblem game on Wii U, whereas those IPs released on the Wii, and Switch. So yeah, the notion that the Switch is lacking in identity? Baloney. There's plenty of games on Switch that are nothing like what we've seen on Wii U.
And really I'm not feeling the unique identity of Switch 2 so far. Sure, there's nothing like Mario Kart World and DK Bananza, but it's basically just open world-ifying their respective IPs which is a similar approach to what a lot of Switch games did (and in fact they have said that they attempted to put MKW on Switch 1 but couldn't because of delays/system limitations, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did the same for Bananza). It's still early, so hard to conclude this yet, but so far every Switch 2 exclusive is just an IP that Switch 1 never got, once we see some Switch 2 exclusives whose IPs had Switch 1 entries, we'll have a better idea of how much of an identity Switch 1's games have.
Who says innovation has to be in hardware? Why are we obsessed with innovation in hardware? I've been beating this drum for a while now but now we finally have the Switch 2 in our hands I think it's more obvious to see how software innovation can be as powerful as raw hardware tricks
Because new forms of input is the easiest way to come up with a new mechanic. If you can do more actions in different ways, you're more likely to come up with something that has an impact on gameplay. In fact if you have more inputs to fill, it can even encourage you to do so to fill up the input real estate.
The software level Switch compatibility and solid accounts system allowing new versions or updates to last generation games without requiring the purchase of an entirely new copy.
I mean while that is good, it doesn't really lend itself much to new game concepts or gameplay mechanics. It basically just lets you release next gen DLC to a last gen game and be able to purchase the DLC without having to buy the game all over again. Good things for sure, but say, the next flagship 3D Mario or Zelda game is not going to be able to take advantage of this to do something different from Mario Odyssey and BotW/TotK.
The addition of GameChat which some have dismissed but it's still a one button share/chat with friends. But also GameShare, especially when combined with GameChat, which is basically just the Wii U GamePad implemented in software.
Again, this isn't the kind of thing that would help the next 3D Mario or Zelda, and it's really not a good substitute for the Gamepad because it's still one screen. It might help replicate the asymmetric multiplayer of the Gamepad, but not the menu display capabilities that people tend to want from dual screens.
@Bolt_Strike
While it's easy to say all that stuff and complain about the lack of "new hardware tricks" if you step back and actually think about it? There are only two things the Switch 2 can't do that previous Nintendo consoles could. On a hardware level. It lacks the IR camera of the Switch JoyCon and it lacks the IR Camera of the WiiMote. That's basically it
It can replicate the Wii U GamePad through GameShare, just straight up. That's a feature that exist and is available should developers want to use it. Will developers choose to use this feature for a more single player focused game? Maybe. Maybe not. But it exists. And they've achieved it through software rather than bundling a specialised controller in the box
Also they've added in there mouse input, camera support and hardware level acceleration for various tasks. Are these things as flashy or as visually noticeable as the WiiMote or GamePad? No. But in terms of what they open up for games they're still pretty impactful. Take for example the dramatic changes in Scarlet and Violet. Or the way that Captain Toad or 3D World are now basically the same games they were on Wii U again. Or the hardware level voice isolation. Or the dramatic storage subsystem performance gains
Are the things Switch 2 is able to do it's predecessors couldn't easily describable in some short little hardware trailer or on the front of the box? Not really. And maybe you'll go through the entire Switch 2 era not really being aware of where the Switch -> Switch 2 barrier is being crossed. But just because you personally can't see it or point to it doesn't mean it isn't there
It can replicate the Wii U GamePad through GameShare, just straight up. That's a feature that exist and is available should developers want to use it. Will developers choose to use this feature for a more single player focused game? Maybe. Maybe not. But it exists. And they've achieved it through software rather than bundling a specialised controller in the box
If the developers don't use it it might as well not exist. And even if it does, that still requires a second Switch to use which makes it extremely inaccessible.
Also they've added in there mouse input, camera support and hardware level acceleration for various tasks. Are these things as flashy or as visually noticeable as the WiiMote or GamePad? No. But in terms of what they open up for games they're still pretty impactful. Take for example the dramatic changes in Scarlet and Violet. Or the way that Captain Toad or 3D World are now basically the same games they were on Wii U again. Or the hardware level voice isolation. Or the dramatic storage subsystem performance gains
Are the things Switch 2 is able to do it's predecessors couldn't easily describable in some short little hardware trailer or on the front of the box? Not really. And maybe you'll go through the entire Switch 2 era not really being aware of where the Switch -> Switch 2 barrier is being crossed. But just because you personally can't see it or point to it doesn't mean it isn't there
It really needs to be both flashy/noticeable and impactful. You can't have one or the other to have a good innovation. If you just have the former, it's superficial and won't have staying power. But if you just have the latter, you can't market it well and it won't catch on.
@Bolt_Strike
The marketing of these features will be in the marketing of the games themselves. Games doing things they couldn't possibly do on Switch and, on occasion, other platforms. The destructive environments of DK, the seamless world of Mario Kart or possibly the voice isolation in the next WarioWare won't be "visible" at hardware level marketing. On the box. Doesn't mean they don't exist
@DaGoldenBoo Yes, we all know about that. However, even taking that into account, considering the direction they took 3D Mario in at the time (with 3D Land and 3D World having almost nothing in common gameplay wise with the likes of 64/Sunshine) and the lack of any kind of exploration focused game remotely close to the Wii U's launch, it seems far more likely that some of these decisions were intentional rather than due to unplanned delays or issues. In particular the aforementioned lack of exploration focused games was probably planned, you can see that during the early 2010s up until the launch of the Switch (a 7 year period, which is normal now but wasn't at the time) they had few exploration focused games and instead leaned heavily into linear platformers, they seemed to think that was sufficient in satisfying the adventure niche rather than large 3D open exploration.
Speaking of, that's another issue. For all the talk about the Switch leaning into the Wii U's identity, I'd argue the Wii U leaned into the DS, 3DS, and Wii's identity even more. So many Wii U games just feel like rehashes of past games of those systems with few to no original ideas, like they feel more like DLC than legitimate sequels. Hard to get excited for a lineup that basically comes off as NSMB: Wii U Edition, 3D Land: Wii U Edition, DKCR: Wii U Edition, Kirby's Epic Yarn: Yoshi Edition, Kirby Canvas Curse: Wii U Edition, etc. You see a lot of praise for the handful of creative games like Splatoon and Mario Maker, but for every one of those entries, there's 2 that are just recyclings of an entry from their past consoles/handhelds. Really felt like Nintendo was creatively bankrupt during that generation (and even the 3DS had a few issues with that here and there so it's not a console vs. handheld problem, but Wii U had it much worse).
I think at the beginning of Switch's life perhaps for the first 2 years it just seemed to regurgitate wii u games. I mean the Switch's most successful game is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which is basically a wii u game and Zelda BOTW is a wii u game too. I delayed getting a Switch for a very long time as it just seemed like most games were either wii u games or games I'd played on other formats. There are loads of original Switch games now but it seemed quite a while before they turned up in numbers. I also felt the controllers on wii u were better so games felt better in that regard even if the wii u controllers were still inferior to Microsoft and Sony who had analogue triggers making many games feel better especially first person shooters and racing games and they had better vibration feedback too. I used to have a gamecube to usb adapter on wii u so could play mario kart 8 with analogue controllers for acceleration and braking etc to give you that fine control and more realistic control. Maybe you can do that on Switch too by connecting a gamecube controller via usb not sure but at the time it was mentioned about Switch having inferior controls for Mario Kart 8. I feel the level of support for controllers on Switch improved over the years. I'm still amazed how great Mario Kart 8 Deluxe looks on my humble Switch Lite though. It's a higher brightness display than Switch 2 and has fantastic contrast and colours and no noticeable blurring or ghosting for me. The wii u also allowed a completely lag free CRT connection so you could play Mario Kart 8 with a great responsive display. Yes it was downscaled but gave great feel with its very responsive handling. I'm just making the point the wii u wasn't a bad way to play mario kart 8 it could control better and feel more responsive. That was the big issue of being a wii u owner back then in that the Switch at first was more about reselling wii u games and sometimes those games weren't as good as on wii u in how they actually play even if they were visually slightly upgraded with a better resolution. Lets not forget the wii u had access to all the wii games and if you had homebrew gamecube games too. 3 console formats on 1 platform at the hardware level. Homebrew also enabled other emulated earlier Nintendo platforms. wii u while unsuccessful commercially was actually a fantastic platform for gaming overall with so many games available to you. Like many I also played games on the gamepad while the main tv was occupied doing something else, which seemed a cool feature at the time. I seem to remember the 480p display of the gamepad was perfect for running gamecube games like roque squadron. It was effectively a portable gamecube you could take around the room.
@Bolt_Strike
I think at the beginning of Switch's life perhaps for the first 2 years it just seemed to regurgitate wii u games. I mean the Switch's most successful game is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which is basically a wii u game and Zelda BOTW is a wii u game too. I delayed getting a Switch for a very long time as it just seemed like most games were either wii u games or games I'd played on other formats. There are loads of original Switch games now but it seemed quite a while before they turned up in numbers.
Hard disagree. Even in the first two years that you point to there were multiple original Switch games, several of which again had no real equivalent. Mario Odyssey, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, Kirby Star Allies, Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, and Fire Emblem Warriors were games that released in the first 2 years and didn't have a predecessor on Wii U. Additionally you also had Splatoon 2, Super Mario Party, and Mario Tennis Aces which were full sequels to previous Wii U entries. The notion that there were no original entries at any point in the Switch's lifespan is blatantly false.
@Banjo- thanks, makes sense. I have been able to find some blur, but like I’ve said before, doesn’t really bother me. Appreciate the continued research!
@Bolt_Strike it’s well documented why the Switch offered more than Wii U. The launch was a disaster, HD dev caused massive game delays (and probably some titles that never got out until after Switch was out), and Nintendo was simultaneously driving the software output of the 3DS, the more successful hardware on the market at the time. That it had even the library it did was a wonder. The Switch was a single child with all the attention and care of the current development and bolstered by software from both the Wii U and 3DS.
I mean it took me till 2020 to think "ah yes, worth it"
Before ? Most games had a WiiU version in one way or another.
Wii U was ultimately a console with a fantastic and distinctive library that had a dreadful launch (post the very initial rush) and muddled marketing at every stage. It was essentially dead in the water before Pikmin 3 arrived and by the time the real set piece proof of concept software like Mario Maker came around it was very much a niche concern.
Switch 2 is nothing like that. It’s more like the PS2 if I were going to compare it to anything - a solid and professional upgrade. The launch is relatively soft (what did the PS2 launch with?) but it’s going to have no problems getting to critical mass and eventually it will get an amazing library.
There might be criticisms about the hardware (there always are) but they are minor in relation to what the console brings and as the big first party exclusives start to roll those concerns will be forgotten.
It won’t accumulate as big a selection of exclusives as - say - the GameCube or Dreamcast. This is partly down to the changes in the industry in a broader sense though.
@Bolt_Strike
You can very easily say the Switch had more to offer at the start in terms of original content than the Wii U did. But that's not really what this thread is arguing or what the discussion here is. The suggestion people are disagreeing with is that Switch 2 is like the Wii U. When people bring up the Switch launch line-up here what they're doing is highlighting that the Switch, with the indisputably good launch, wasn't that different from what we're seeing with Switch 2
Switch had BotW, Switch 2 has Prime 4. Switch had Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Switch 2 has Switch 2 Editions of Zelda. Switch had Odyssey, Switch 2 has DK Bonanza. Obviously Breath of the Wild was it's own thing and without question a more impactful day 1 release. But really, the gap between the two isn't that big. Arguably Switch 2 has the edge given the library of content the additional power and solid backwards compatibility Switch 2 enhances
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
I’m guessing if this was an entirely new concept for a machine- 3 screens, foot controllers, smellovision, heart rate monitor and brain wave connectivity- it wouldn’t be backwards compatible and it wouldn’t be portable. If anything the new gimmicks for the Switch 2 seem a little redundant to me and I’m happy to just have a Switch Pro.
Isn't it obvious that Falco Lombardi is actually a parrot?
Shower thoughts, what if we step back for this and do a raw and cold like for like comparison. If you had the previous platform what do you gain upgrading to the new platform 6 months post launch. Wii -> Wii U, Wii U -> Switch, Switch -> Switch 2
First, Wii -> Wii U:
1. Third party support. Assassin's Creed 3, Batman Arkham City, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Zombi U
2. Fairly limited first party content. Nintendo Land, New SMB U
3. The ability to play HD-era titles on a semi-portable screen, compressed 480p output
4. Native support for Wii Software, as is, no improvements (off-TV was added later)
5. Access to VC titles starting from scratch, ability to "upgrade" Wii VC titles for a fee
Wii U -> Switch:
1. Third Party support. Skyrim, Doom... arguably less compelling than Wii U early on
2. Fairly solid first party output. BotW, Splatoon 2, Mario + Rabbids, Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles 2
3. The ability to play HD titles at native 720p anywhere
4. Full price ports of Wii U era titles, often enhanced. Mario Kart 8, Rayman Legends, Fast RMX, Lego City
5. No retro library outside of arcade archives, no recognition of your previous platform purchases
Switch -> Switch 2:
1. Third Party support. Cyberpunk, Hitman, Street Fighter 6, Split Fiction, Star Wars Outlaws
2. Fairly solid first party output. DK Bonanza, Mario Kart World, Splatoon Raiders, Metroid Prime 4
3. Games running at upto 4K, DLSS, significantly improved load times, GameChat, GameShare
4. Fairly comprehensive BC including improved performance for most titles. Additionally enhancements for Switch titles, some with a fee but most without
5. Continuation and expansion of NSO
5 different areas. I would argue Wii U probably wins on point 1 (third party support) just barely beating Switch 2. Switch is well behind on this one although Wii U faded quickly while Switch improved over time. Switch 2 starts where Switch left off in terms of third party support.
Switch probably eeks out a victory over Switch 2 on point 2 (first party output) just from BotW. Although that's mostly just on the back of BotW being as big a deal as it was. Certainly a bigger deal than World and Prime 4 are. Wii U is not even in the picture here
The third point (unique platform improvements) I'd personally give to the Wii U with Switch and Switch 2 just being further improvements to the same. They all sold themselves, to me, on being a portable-curious home console. Wii U was the first, but a beta test. Switch improved it. Switch 2 brings the concept kicking and screaming into this decade
The other two are very, very comfortable wins for Switch 2. Not just backwards compatible but the obliteration of the full priced remaster. And NSO, despite the whine, is a far better service than VC. Having it on day 1 just continue on from where the previous platform left on? That's certainly better. Especially when it also expands to add GC plus improvements to the N64 app
At the moment, I think the closest comparisons Switch 2 has to Wii U are the day 1 patch adding basic features (e.g. eshop) and 3rd parties burning bridges with consumers.
With the 3rd party situation on Wii U you had stuff like:
Mass Effect 3 ported over to Wii U while PS3/360 got the whole trilogy
Black Ops 2 and Ghosts didn't get the paid DLC and the free DLC was very late
Meanwhile with Switch 2 at the moment:
Key Cards for the vast majority of physical releases
Some companies like SEGA not doing upgrade paths
But in general Switch 2 is nowhere near comparable to Wii U's issues. For example, there's a steady 1st party lineup on Switch 2 meanwhile on Wii U you had to wait 7 months after launch for a 1st party game.
@skywake Oh no, I'm not disagreeing that the Switch 2 launch lineup is more like the Switch than the Wii U. In terms of software, I can perhaps see a vague similarity where they're relying on recycling old ideas from past hardware by having all of these Switch 2 Editions and I think that if the concept had existed back on the Wii U, many of these rehashes might've been Wii U Editions of older games, but beyond that I would agree that the Switch 2's lineup is definitely better so far. I see more similarities with the Wii U in terms of hardware, not software.
The reason I brought up the Switch vs. Wii U comparisons is because of several people saying that the Switch was relying heavily on Wii U ports to say the Switch 2 is better about that. I brought up several counterpoints to explain why that's not the case, such as the lack of exploration heavy games and main entries in various IPs that returned with new entries on the Switch, and the number of original Switch entries. Really, so far I would say the Switch 2 is worse about that than the Switch. This year's lineup is relying far more on Switch 2 Editions than new entries. There's only 4 confirmed Switch 2 exclusives for this year (Mario Kart World, DK Bananza, Hyrule Warriors Age of Imprisonment, and Kirby Air Riders), meanwhile there's 6 Switch 2 Edition games (Metroid Prime 4, BotW, TotK, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Mario Party Jamboree, Pokemon Legends Z-A). More than half of this year's lineup for Switch 2 is ports, which is more than I could say for the Switch. When it comes to the balance of new vs. old content, a lot of people here seem to have poor/selective memory of how it really was between the three consoles.
There's only 4 confirmed Switch 2 exclusives for this year (Mario Kart World, DK Bananza, Hyrule Warriors Age of Imprisonment, and Kirby Air Riders), meanwhile there's 6 Switch 2 Edition games (Metroid Prime 4, BotW, TotK, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Mario Party Jamboree, Pokemon Legends Z-A). More than half of this year's lineup for Switch 2 is ports, which is more than I could say for the Switch.
I feel like you're counting a little oddly here. Switch had 10 months in 2017 and released 10 games. I'm willing to jump the gun and assume that the new Splatoon as well as other announced games which don't yet have a date are coming by March 2026, the 10th month after Switch 2 is released. Here is the 10-month Switch lineup versus the announced Switch 2 games:
(Games with a * mean the game was in some way non-exclusive to the system)
Switch 2:
1. Mario Kart World
2. Pokemon Z-A (*)
3. Bananza
4. Splatoon Raiders
5. Prime 4 (*)
6. Air Riders
7. Age of Imprisonment
8. Drag x Drive
9. Welcome Tour
10. Jamboree DLC (*)
11. Kirby and the a forgotten Lands DLC (*)
12. TotK Switch 2 edition (*)
13. BotW Switch 2 edition (*)
So both systems have two major non-exclusive releases as well as precisely 7 exclusives. Switch 2 also has more non-exclusives but only because it has more games in general.
@FishyS I did forget about Welcome Tour and Drag x Drive, but I wouldn't have counted them anyway. Those aren't really full retail $60-$80 releases, they're smaller eShop titles, so I feel like those count a little less than something like a Mario Kart World or a DK Bananza. The only Switch game on your list of that caliber is Snipperclips, the rest are full retail games. And I don't think we can count Raiders. There's no confirmed release date and the trailer is fairly teaser-ish. I strongly suspect it's post-March. So really by those criteria it's 6 vs. 4, not 7 each.
@Bolt_Strike Drag x Drive might be cheaper than 1-2 switch (which wasn't quite full price either but was closer) but it serves the same purpose as a gimmick game. I would certainly count them the same.
As for Raiders? We'll see. But I bet if that game isn't in by March we'll get a different new game which hasn't been announced yet.
@FishyS Ehh, I don't really like party games so I can't really weigh in on how deep 1-2 Switch was (how would it compare to the likes of a Mario Party or Warioware?), but even then the Switch still has a slight edge at worst depending on where Raiders lands.
As far as unannounced games, I don't think we're getting another major, new original Switch 2 game this year unless they do a shadow drop like Raiders in the next 2 months. We're kind of running out of time to announce a game for the Fall, they're cutting the marketing too close now. My guess is that if we see more unannounced games it's going to be something smaller like a Switch 2 Edition, some other remake/remaster, or a smaller eShop title. Something announced at say, a September Direct (assuming we have one, which I think we will but given that they're starting to lean into Nintendo Today for announcements there's no guarantee anymore) would probably be more of a 2026 release.
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Topic: Does anyone else feel like this is more "Switch U" than Switch 2?
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